Last week at the Trump National Doral Miami golf club, a group of religious leaders dedicated a twenty-two-foot golden statue to President Donald Trump, the resort’s owner. During the ceremony, Trump called in and described the statue as “beautiful.” The event was presided over by Pastor Mark Burns, a longtime Trump supporter, while the idea for the statue came from a group of cryptocurrency enthusiasts who support the President, and used its creation to sell a meme coin called $PATRIOT. According to Burns, Trump was originally scheduled to attend the ceremony in person, but apparently changed plans amid criticism for posting, and later deleting, an A.I.-generated image of himself as Jesus Christ. (Burns later took to social media to strongly deny that the statue represented a form of idol worship.)

I recently spoke by phone with Burns, who is the senior pastor at the Harvest Praise & Worship Center, in Easley, South Carolina, and the founder of the internationally broadcast NOW evangelical television network. During our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity, we discussed the backstory behind the statue, why Burns believes God told him to support Trump, and why he thinks opponents of the President misunderstand how his supporters really see him.

How did you come to be a person who is sometimes described as President Trump’s spiritual adviser?

Well, just being a very, very early supporter. Before he announced, I was in his orbit, and I guess it was about being loyal to the word of God for me. For me, it’s never been about power or position. Remember, he was considered by many people a long shot to even win the Presidency. And so early on, I was there, and the Lord told me then. The first thing the Lord told me was to show the world that this man’s not a racist.

The Lord told you directly, you mean?

Well, yes, yes, absolutely, He told me directly. Yes. The Bible’s very clear that He speaks to us through dreams. He speaks to us through the word of the Lord. And so He told me to show the world that this man is not a racist. I know what real racism looks like, being from the deep south, and it’s not Donald Trump. And that’s where my relationship started. And, of course, I didn’t know he was going to become President.

I think it was probably more likely he would become President if the Lord wanted him to be President, though.

I’m assuming you’re saying that respectfully because we do believe that God chooses our leaders. And that includes President Biden, former President Obama, and any other leader that America has. He raises up one and sits down another. But also, the Bible says that we should pray for our leaders. That includes Democrats and Republicans.

You’re talking about a period, in 2015, when the campaign was starting, and a lot of conservatives were upset that Donald Trump lived this colorful life, had extramarital affairs, and said these things about women. Why were you able to overlook all that stuff?

The word of God.

Well, that’s a good answer.

When you read the word of God, He looks beyond our faults. We are all sinners. We have all fallen short of the glory of God, and yet we understand that it is by the blood of Jesus that we are made clean. I know that Noah was an alcoholic. He was so drunk that he fell down naked, and his sons had to walk backward to cover him up. But God chose him to try to save the world. You have David, who was a lustful man, and also a murderer. And yet he is the man that God still used to write the Psalms. And so, because I know what the word of God says, I know God doesn’t judge us based on who we were. He judges us based on who we are and who we’re becoming.

Then, do you think Trump has changed over the last decade or so?

I know for a fact that who he was when I first met him spiritually and who he is today are two different people.

It seems like sometimes Trump’s allies or supporters say the negative claims about Trump are lies or smears. But what you seem to be saying is not that Trump didn’t do any of these things in his past, but that he did, and that’s O.K., or maybe not O.K., but that God works in mysterious ways and can use Trump to lead the country nevertheless. Is that accurate?

Well, I think that it could be said about all of us. I mean, Isaac, you have things in your closet that you pray never show up on CNN. There are things that you’ve done that you pray to God never become a New Yorker story

That’s interesting, but I haven’t grabbed women against their will and bragged about it, or posted a video of the Obamas as apes. So maybe there’s a sliding scale of what people do and how we should judge them?

Ultimately, God is our judge, not people. And we may have a sliding scale, as you say, in man’s law, because it is true, murder is way more dangerous and carries heavier weights than jaywalking or eating too much. Gluttony is just as much a sin as murder, but in the eyes of man, murder carries way more weight, and it should be handled the way that the word of God says it should be handled. But in the eyes of God, who is our ultimate judge, God is a God of forgiveness. God is a God of love. So, having said that, it doesn’t matter what President Trump has done in his past.

It doesn’t matter?

It doesn’t matter in the eyes of the Lord, and apparently, it doesn’t really matter to the eyes of the American voters because they voted for him and made him President twice. Many would argue three times.

You would argue three times, right?

They voted for him twice, and he’s won twice.

But, you think he’s won three times, to be clear.

What I think is irrelevant. What does matter is this: We’re talking about the fact that it doesn’t matter what President Trump has done in his past, as long as he’s repented and asked for forgiveness. The President is not grabbing anybody or talking about grabbing anybody from their private parts today.

He is posting about the Obamas as apes and talking about wiping an entire civilization off the map though, right?

Let me just say this. Isaac, I know you’re an amazing reporter. Concerning the ape picture, I was asking the President to fire the person who did that. It was a video that clipped over to the very next video that automatically started. The person who posted that did not cut that frame. He did not post a picture of the Obamas as apes, but even so it was still a bad look. I spoke to the President about that, and again, I suggested that whoever did that should have been fired because that was not good, especially during Black History Month. But the President, in his wonderful, colorful personality, responded to that in a way that I think only Donald Trump could respond. And he apologized to the apes because we love the apes. [Laughs] I think that was absolutely funny, but he apologized to the apes for being compared to the Obamas because the policies of the Obamas were not good for America, and I still stand by that. So again, I too want to apologize to the apes for being compared to the Obamas, not to Black people, but the apes themselves.

And you’re aware of what he said recently about Somalis coming to America and other stuff, right?

What did he say? I’m not aware.

He said that he didn’t want people coming here from places like Somalia—shithole countries.

Well, again, sir, if you’re talking about the s-hole comment, that happened years ago.

He made another one recently. He said Somalis are “stupid people” with “low I.Q.s.”

O.K. But did he say s-hole countries? I want to be clear about that.

Yeah.

I want you to go on the record and say he actually said that recently.

What do you mean?

That the President actually did say s-hole countries. He used that phrase.

Yeah. December 9, 2025.

Read it to me.

[From NBC, quoting Trump:] “ ‘I’ve also announced a permanent pause on Third World migration, including from hellholes like Afghanistan, Haiti, Somalia and many other countries,’ he said. Then, reflecting on his 2018 meeting with senators during which he referred to certain nations as ‘shithole countries,’ Trump said, ‘Remember I said that to the senators?’ He said, ‘Our country was going to hell. And we had a meeting, and I say, “Why is it we only take people from shithole countries, right?” Why can’t we have some people from Norway, Sweden, just a few? Let us have a few from Denmark. Do you mind sending us a few people? Do you mind?’ Trump pointed specifically to Somali immigrants: ‘We always take people from Somalia, places that are a disaster . . . filthy, dirty, disgusting, ridden with crime. The only thing they’re good at is going after ships.’ ” That’s from five months ago.

Well, let me just say this: From a political point of view, no human is an s-hole person, but there are some very bad people who make very bad decisions. Jesus said, “If you live by the sword, you shall die by the sword.” In many of these countries, and Africa is included in that, I’ve been to many of them. It is very true that these countries are not getting the help that they need. Excuse me. I’m sorry, let me scratch that. They’re getting the help that they need, but there’s so much corruption that happens in these countries.

He also talked about Somali immigrants in America as “garbage,” just to be clear.

Well, I think we’re talking about a culture, because this culture is the same in many of the countries. Why in Nigeria are the roads torn to pieces? Why is it like that in other parts of Africa? Why is it that Africans get so much help from America, and yet their countries have litter all over the place? It ain’t because Black people are stupid. I hope that’s not what you’re suggesting. But you don’t have to go to Africa to do that. We go to some of the Democratic counties and cities in America. Why don’t Beverly Hills and Mar-a-Lago look like Baltimore or Chicago? Maybe you have the answer for it.

Why doesn’t Baltimore look like Mar-a-Lago? That’s the question?

It ain’t because we’re Black and ain’t because we’re just dirty or lazy people. You got to ask yourself why the system is set up that way.

I agree. I think the system is problematic. But I also wanted to hear about this golden statue because I think it’s an amazing story. How did you first learn about the golden statue, and how did you find yourself speaking at the ceremony?

Isaac, I was told about the statue almost two years ago, before the President’s Inauguration. A Jewish friend of mine, Yaakov Flitchkin, along with the billionaire Brock Pierce, texted me and said, “Listen, these groups of patriots made this bronze statue in celebration of President Trump in his fight, fight, fight stance. They’re trying to figure out a way to get it to the President.” And that’s how I got involved.

Some people have said this is a form of idol worship. What do you think about that?

I think you can make anything an idol, whether it be your job, money, your wife or your husband, anything you put more importantly before God. This statue was no different from a Michael Jordan statue. I’m very close to the President, but I don’t know anybody in my circle who worships or honors Donald Trump as a god or any kind of deity. President Trump had nothing to do with the statue, as you and the media keep trying to portray that he did.

Where is the statue placed now?

It’s at his Miami Doral location.

O.K. So he owns the property.

Yes. Have you ever been there?

No. So, just to clarify, he had nothing to do with it, but it’s placed on his property?

Right. Yeah. The President had nothing to do with the creation of the statue. The President had nothing to do with the buying of the statue. The President did not come up with the concept. I would be offended if I worked really hard and bought you a gift, and then other people started saying, “You bought yourself that gift.” I bought the gift. You didn’t ask me to do it. This is because I love you. I appreciate you. I honor you. Honor is not worship. Honor is not idolatry.

I think some of the concern about this worshipful display was heightened because a couple of weeks ago, Trump posted this A.I. image, which seemed to be of him as Jesus. I’m not sure if you saw that.

Well, again, I was one of the first people to reach out to the President and say that was bad. Please take that down as fast as possible.

What did he say?

He thought it was a doctor, but again, he’s no theologian.

I’m not a theologian, and I knew it wasn’t a doctor.

Great. Great.

Is there a concern that many of Trump’s supporters might view him as this kind of deity-like figure? That’s not something you’re concerned about?

I don’t know who you talked to or who you met with. I think this is something conjured by those who dislike Donald Trump. I think it’s because you hear so many Christians around the United States of America and the world believe that God is using President Trump to bring us back to a nation where we honor God. Again, that part is true, and we believe God is using President Trump to do just that. I mean, to push back some of the laws that are contrary to the word of God. The whole men participating in female sports.

So, just to clarify, you do think that the Lord is using Trump for these policies and that the Lord is speaking to people like yourself, telling them that we need Trump, but at the same time, Trump himself is not a supernatural figure?

Well, you’re one hundred per cent accurate in saying that President Trump is not a supernatural figure at all. He’s a man. He will die one day. He is no god. He is no deity. But whether you like him or not, he’s a great man. ♦