This Week in Fiction

Rachel Yoder on a Mennonite Childhood and a Story About the Devil

蕾切尔·约德谈门诺派童年与一个关于魔鬼的故事
The author discusses her story “The Promise.”
作者谈论她的短篇小说《承诺》。
A photo of Rachel Yoder in green. The background has some cursive writing on a red background.
Illustration by The New Yorker; Source photograph by Nathan Biehl

Your story “The Promise” follows a couple of days in the life of an eight-year-old girl named Birdie, who is growing up in a Mennonite community, in the nineteen-eighties. Her parents are away, and she is staying with her aunts and her grandmother, about to start second grade. What inspired the story, and what makes these two days in Birdie’s life so important?

你的小说《承诺》讲述了八岁女孩伯蒂在八十年代门诺派社区度过的几天。父母外出,她与姨妈和外婆同住,即将升入二年级。这个故事的灵感是什么?这两天对伯蒂为何如此重要?

In “The Promise,” Birdie’s aunt Miriam tells her a story about the Devil and a typewriter. My aunt Clara also told me a story about a devil and a typewriter when I was little, but all I retained were those two details. I couldn’t remember what happened in the story, so I decided to write my own version. I think it was so peculiar, and also incredibly fun, that Clara told me this story. Did she believe it had actually happened? I’ll never know.

在《承诺》中,伯蒂的姨妈米丽娅姆给她讲了一个关于魔鬼和打字机的故事。我小时候,姨妈克拉拉也给我讲过类似的故事,但我只记得这两个细节。我记不清故事里到底发生了什么,于是决定自己写一个版本。克拉拉给我讲这个故事,我觉得既古怪又有趣。她相信这事真的发生过吗?我永远无从知晓。

When Birdie stays at her aunts’ house, she learns about complex concepts and has new feelings that she’ll spend decades sorting out: the feeling that her parents betrayed her by leaving her behind and missing her first day of school, the conflicting terror and appeal of the Devil on his typewriter, the confusion between love and hate. Perhaps these two days represent the end of an era for her.

住在姨妈家时,伯蒂接触到复杂的概念,产生了新的感受——这些感受她将用几十年去梳理:被父母抛下、错过开学第一天的背叛感;打字机上的魔鬼带来的恐惧与诱惑交织的矛盾;爱与恨之间的困惑。也许这两天对她而言,标志着一个时代的终结。

In the course of her stay, Birdie explores the rooms of her aunts and grandmother’s house, and has encounters with her relatives. Both of her aunts seem kind but also seem to want to scare her, one by insisting that she look at the scar from her grandmother’s mastectomy, the other by telling her a story about the Devil. Why do they do these things?

借住期间,伯蒂探索了姨妈和外婆家的各个房间,与亲戚们有了种种接触。两位姨妈似乎都很和善,但又都想吓唬她:一个执意让她看外婆乳房切除术留下的疤痕,另一个给她讲魔鬼的故事。她们为什么要这么做?

I’m interested in the ways that Mennonites repress or beautify or overlook horror. When I was a child, my uncle’s veal barn was a locus of true horror for me—These babies are going to be slaughtered!—but I could never say something like that. It would have been viewed as sensitive, dramatic, maybe funny. Instead, I stopped eating meat. I think Birdie’s aunts are trying, in the best ways they know how, to cope with complicated emotions that are unspeakable—Rebecca, with her grief, as she pulls at her mother’s dress to show the scar, and Miriam, with her ambivalence toward marriage and her tale about the Devil.

我对门诺派压抑、美化或无视恐怖的方式很感兴趣。小时候,叔叔的小牛养殖场对我来说是真正的恐怖之地——这些牛宝宝要被宰杀!——但我永远不能说出这样的话。这会被看作敏感、戏剧化,甚至可笑。于是,我选择了不吃肉。我认为伯蒂的姨妈们正以她们所知的最好方式,应对那些无法言说的复杂情绪——丽贝卡带着悲伤,扯开母亲的裙子展示疤痕;米丽娅姆则怀着对婚姻的矛盾心理,讲起魔鬼的故事。

The story captures the very tactile, sensory details of Birdie’s physical world, and her thoughts and perceptions. How did you inhabit that child’s-eye view?

故事捕捉了伯蒂物质世界中非常具体的触觉和感官细节,以及她的想法和感知。你是如何进入那个孩童视角的?

This story is first and foremost written out of love—love for this place and these people and this particular cultural moment, all of which are now long gone. When I was a little girl, I was able to love them in an uncomplicated way, and I wanted to return to that pure love. It was a relief.

这个故事首先是出于爱而写的——对这个地方、这些人、这个特定文化时刻的爱,而这一切如今都已远去。当我还是个小女孩时,我能以一种不复杂的方式去爱他们,我想回到那种纯粹的爱中去。这是一种解脱。

I had also recently given my students an assignment to write a scene inspired by Claude Debussy’s “Rêverie,” so I decided to do the exercise myself. I picked this piece of music because for me it elicits such a mix of emotions and tones—dreamy, nostalgic, sad, beautiful. I began writing the story while listening to this song on repeat, and I think it helped me to feel my way back to that little girl.

我最近还给学生们布置了一个作业:写一个受德彪西《梦幻曲》启发的场景,于是我决定自己也做这个练习。我选这首曲子,是因为它对我来说能唤起如此复杂的情感和色调——梦幻、怀旧、忧伤、美丽。我开始写这个故事时,一直循环播放这首曲子,我想它帮助我一路感受,回到了那个小女孩的状态。

Birdie meditates on the idea of roots, how they hold her family’s house and her relatives themselves to the land where they live, and where they are “happy, and happy, and happy.” But she herself doesn’t want to be rooted. What has she already learned at age eight that makes her feel this way?

伯蒂思考着“根”这个概念——根如何将家人的房子和亲人们牢牢固定在这片土地上,让他们“幸福,幸福,幸福”。但她自己却不想被扎根。八岁的她已经学到了什么,让她产生这样的感觉?

I spent a lot of my childhood watching women work in the kitchen, be it my aunts making casseroles, or my extended family cleaning up in the church kitchen after a Thanksgiving feast, or my own mom, after a full day of work, coming home to cook dinner. I did not see a single man in a kitchen, ever, until I was much older. Believe it or not, kitchen work didn’t interest me as a small child, and it doesn’t interest Birdie, either. She is dreaming of going to the moon, and of being a ballerina, center stage, with everyone watching her. Both of these dreams are somewhat sinful: Why would you want to go so far from home? Why would you want all the attention for yourself? So, at eight, she already understands that her desires are bad, maybe even evil. She can’t stay.

我童年的大部分时间都在看女人在厨房里劳作,无论是姨妈们做炖菜,还是大家庭在教堂厨房里收拾感恩节盛宴后的碗碟,或者是我自己的妈妈,在结束一整天的工作后,回家做饭。我从未在厨房里见过任何一个男人,直到我长大很多后才见到。信不信由你,厨房的活儿在我小时候并不吸引我,对伯蒂也没有吸引力。她梦想着去月球,梦想着成为芭蕾舞演员,站在舞台中央,所有人都在看她。这两个梦想都有些罪恶:你为什么想离家那么远?你为什么想把所有注意力都集中在自己身上?所以,在八岁时,她已经明白自己的欲望是不好的,甚至可能是邪恶的。她不能留下。

Birdie takes to heart (and into her imagination) her aunt’s story of the Devil with a typewriter, writing people’s life stories in exchange for their souls. Is Miriam trying to give Birdie a message? In the community where you grew up, was being a writer considered a sin? And, if so, how did you navigate that choice?

伯蒂把姨妈讲的魔鬼与打字机的故事听进了心里(也放进了想象里)——魔鬼用打字机写下人们的人生故事,换取他们的灵魂。米丽娅姆是想向伯蒂传递某种信息吗?在你成长的社区里,当作家被视为一种罪过吗?如果是,你是如何应对这个选择的?

I don’t know that Miriam is all that aware of why she’s telling Birdie this story. I think the story titillates her more than anything. And, no, being a writer isn’t a sin, but, at least in my extended family, stories are sacred, and who gets to tell them is of great importance. Typically, this has fallen to the men, so I think it’s uncomfortable for some to have a woman who is now telling stories publicly and, even worse, not telling the right stories. For instance, some members of my extended family dislike my novel “Nightbitch,” and I heard that a cousin called it “evil.”

我不确定米丽娅姆是否完全清楚自己为什么要给伯蒂讲这个故事。我觉得这个故事更多是让她自己感到兴奋。而且,不,当作家不是罪过,但至少在我的大家族里,故事是神圣的,谁有资格讲述故事至关重要。通常,这都落在男人身上,所以我想,现在有一个女人公开讲故事,而且更糟的是,讲的还不是“对”的故事,这让一些人感到不舒服。比如,我家族里有些人讨厌我的小说《夜母狗》,我听说有个表亲称它“邪恶”。

In your mind, does Birdie leave the community? It seems that she will, but then her wedding reception, decades later, is held in a barn, which perhaps implies not.

在你看来,伯蒂会离开这个社区吗?看起来她会,但几十年后,她的婚宴却在一个谷仓里举行,这或许暗示她并没有离开。

I think the more pressing questions for me are: What does it mean for Birdie, at the end of the story, to forget? And is it essential, at least to some degree, for a woman to forget herself in order to belong, whether to the Mennonites or to a marriage?

对我来说,更紧迫的问题是:在故事结尾,伯蒂的遗忘意味着什么?一个女人为了获得归属感——无论是归属于门诺派,还是归属于一段婚姻——在某种程度上遗忘自己,这是否是必不可少的?

At the end of the story, Birdie, feverish and somewhat delirious, holds out a butcher knife and tells her aunt, “I am the bride, and this is my promise.” Her promise expresses, in some way, her kinship with her unmarried aunt, who didn’t trade her own freedom for a set of good knives. But there is more to it than that, right?

故事结尾,伯蒂发着烧,有些神志不清,她举起一把屠刀,对姨妈说:“我是新娘,这是我的承诺。”她的承诺在某种程度上表达了她与未婚姨妈之间的亲缘关系——姨妈没有用自由去换一套好刀。但其中还有更深层的含义,对吗?

I don’t know exactly what the promise is, but it has something to do with the submerged violence of patriarchy, and also what it takes for a woman to sever herself from this tradition. I think it takes a knife—whether literal or metaphorical—to do that, and I think it hurts, and can be violent, if not physically, at least emotionally. I like that we don’t fully understand what the promise is, and that it can keep refracting in different ways, like light bouncing off a blade. I think the promise might also be, in part, a threat.

我不确切知道这个承诺是什么,但它与父权制下潜藏的暴力有关,也与一个女人要斩断自己与这种传统的联系所需付出的代价有关。我认为要做到这一点,需要一把刀——无论是字面意义上的还是隐喻意义上的——而且我认为这很痛,可能很暴力,即便不是身体上的,至少也是情感上的。我喜欢我们并不完全理解这个承诺是什么,喜欢它可以像刀刃上反射的光一样,不断以不同的方式折射。我想这个承诺在某种程度上,也可能是一种威胁。

“Nightbitch,” which came out in 2021, tells the story of a new mother who transforms into a dog at night. It is, obviously, not a directly realist work in the way that “The Promise” seems to be. Was it difficult to approach storytelling in such a different way? I believe you’re working on a new novel; does it fall into one of these two styles?

2021年出版的《夜母狗》讲述了一个新妈妈在夜晚变成狗的故事。显然,它不像《承诺》那样是一部直接现实主义的作品。以如此不同的方式处理叙事,是否困难?我相信你正在写一部长篇新作;它属于这两种风格中的一种吗?

What felt most different for me when writing “The Promise” was the engine that was fuelling the narrative. For “Nightbitch,” that engine was powered by a pronounced voice and a boundless rage, so the first third of the book is written in these gangly, roving sentences that are in incredibly close third person. “The Promise” is driven by observation and horror, so the sentences came out much more orderly and restrained, with a greater distance from the main character, and mere suggestions of some unarticulated violence lurking beneath the surface. (In “Nightbitch,” there is nothing lurking beneath the surface. It is all jettisoned from the body and onto the page as soon as it is thought.) The new novel is a mess! I think it’s working with repression and grief as narrative forces, and I’m still figuring out what that looks and sounds like. ♦

写《承诺》时,我感觉最不同的是驱动叙事的引擎。对《夜母狗》来说,那个引擎由鲜明的语调和无边的愤怒驱动,所以书的前三分之一是用那些松散、游移的句子写成的,是非常贴近的第三人称。《承诺》则由观察和恐怖驱动,所以句子出来时更加有序和克制,与主角的距离更远,只是暗示着某种未曾言明的暴力潜伏在表面之下。(在《夜母狗》里,没有什么潜伏在表面之下。一切都是一想到,就从身体里喷射到纸页上。)新小说是一团糟!我想它正在用压抑和悲伤作为叙事力量,而我还在摸索那看起来和听起来是什么样子。♦

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