What We’re Reading

Rachel Aviv on Writing About Moms

蕾切尔·阿维夫谈书写母亲
A woman and a girl on a tandem bicycle reading
Illustration by Greg Clarke

The people closest to us can sometimes be the hardest to see clearly—and mothers might be the blurriest. “The mother-daughter relationship, perhaps more than any other, seems to defy a fixed point of view,” Rachel Aviv writes in “You Won’t Get Free Of It: Stories of Mothers and Daughters.” The book, which came out this week, collects six essays originally published in The New Yorker. “I wrote some of these stories feeling, existentially, like a daughter,” Aviv notes in the book’s preface. She describes revising several essays to “redress what I saw as a kind of imbalance, a defect of curiosity about the mother half of the couple.” We talked about that process, how parent-child attachments can resemble a romance, and what books Aviv turned to while writing the pieces in the collection.

最亲近的人,有时恰恰最难看清——而母亲,或许是最模糊的那个身影。“母女关系,也许比任何其他关系都更抗拒一个固定的视角,”蕾切尔·阿维夫(Rachel Aviv)在《你逃不掉的:母女故事集》(You Won’t Get Free Of It: Stories of Mothers and Daughters)中写道。这本本周面世的书,收录了最初发表在《纽约客》上的六篇文章。“写其中一些故事时,我在存在意义上感觉自己仍是个女儿,”阿维夫在书的前言中写道。她描述了自己如何修改其中几篇文章,以“纠正我所看到的一种失衡,一种对伴侣中母亲那一半的好奇心缺失”。我们聊了聊这个过程,聊了亲子依恋何以酷似一段恋情,也聊了阿维夫在写作这些篇目时参考了哪些书。

Our conversation has been edited and condensed.

我们的对话经过了编辑和精简。

What inspired you to write this book?

是什么启发你写了这本书?

A few years ago, I was rereading interview transcripts for my first ever piece for The New Yorker, “God Knows Where I Am,” which I had written when I was twenty-eight. It was about a woman named Linda Bishop who’d had a psychotic break and ended up living in an abandoned farmhouse subsisting on apples. Revisiting the transcripts in my mid-thirties, I was taken aback when I found that Linda’s best friend had told me that Linda had been pregnant before college, and had given up the baby.

几年前,我在重读自己为《纽约客》写的第一篇稿子《上帝知道我在哪儿》的采访笔录,那是我二十八岁时写的。文章讲的是一个名叫琳达·毕肖普(Linda Bishop)的女人,她经历了精神病发作,最终住进一栋废弃的农舍,靠吃苹果维生。三十多岁时重读这些笔录,我大吃一惊,发现琳达最好的朋友曾告诉我,琳达上大学前怀过孕,并把孩子送走了。

I was amazed that I had not even mentioned this biographical fact in the finished piece. I had essentially described Linda’s psychosis as emerging out of nowhere, after a happy childhood. I called Linda’s sister and asked her about the baby. The question seemed to open up a layer of experience that I had missed.

我惊讶地意识到,在成稿里我竟对这个人生事实只字未提。我基本上把琳达的精神病描述成凭空出现,发生在一个幸福的童年之后。我给琳达的姐姐打了电话,问起那个孩子的事。这个问题似乎打开了一层我此前错失的经验。

Did having children yourself change your approach?

自己有了孩子之后,你的处理方式改变了吗?

There’s becoming a parent, and there’s also the fact of getting older—you no longer identify with the younger person in the room, and you become more aware of the instability of your perspective, as a person and as a journalist.

一方面是成为父母这件事,另一方面是年纪渐长这个事实——你不再认同房间里那个更年轻的人,你越来越意识到自己视角的不稳定性,无论作为一个人,还是作为一名记者。

The Linda Bishop story, it turns out, wasn’t the only time I’d omitted a lost baby. There are two other stories in the book in which parents lose their babies, but when I originally published those pieces I breezed past those events, as if they didn’t merit mention. I somehow hadn’t been curious enough, and in returning to these pieces I tried to slow down and capture that sense of rupture and loss.

琳达·毕肖普的故事,原来并不是我唯一一次遗漏一个失去的孩子。书里还有另外两篇故事,讲的也是父母失去孩子的事,但我最初发表那些文章时,对这些事件一笔带过,仿佛它们不值一提。不知怎的,我当时好奇心不够,而在重拾这些篇目时,我试着放慢脚步,去捕捉那种断裂与丧失的感觉。

In the preface to your collection, you say that your mother was the first subject of your writing. What was it like to write about her again in this book?

在你的文集前言中,你说母亲是你写作的第一个对象。在这本书里再次书写她,是什么感觉?

I hadn’t been planning to, but while I was thinking about these ideas my mom happened to be moving, and she ended up finding a pile of her own journals from the late seventies and early eighties. When I asked her if I could read them, she immediately said, “Sure!” I felt like I was encountering her with the same sense of freshness and appreciation that I often feel when I am reading the writing of a stranger. I didn’t have to bristle at her idealism, as I might now.

我本来没这个打算,但就在我思考这些想法时,我妈妈正好在搬家,结果她翻出了一摞自己七十年代末、八十年代初的日记。我问她能不能读,她立刻说:“当然可以!”我感觉自己像是带着一种新鲜感和欣赏在遇见她,那种感觉常常在我读一个陌生人的文字时出现。我不必像现在这样,对她的理想主义感到恼火。

Were there any books you returned to during the writing process, which you would recommend?

在写作过程中,你有没有反复重读、愿意推荐的书?

One of my favorite books is “Parallel Lives,” by Phyllis Rose. I’ve always loved the idea of joint profiles of two people who are in love and in conflict over the course of their lives. And it occurred to me that, instead of focussing on horizontal couples, I could focus on vertical ones. At times, the mother-daughter relationship feels like a romance or a marriage. And then, suddenly, it doesn’t. There often is a kind of tragic “breakup.” And, hopefully, later, a coming together again.

我最喜欢的书之一是菲利斯·罗斯(Phyllis Rose)的《平行人生》(Parallel Lives)。我一直很喜欢那种为两个相爱又一生冲突的人写双人肖像的想法。于是我想到,与其聚焦于横向的伴侣,不如聚焦于纵向的。母女关系有时就像一场恋爱或一段婚姻。然后,突然间,又不是了。常常会有一种悲剧性的“分手”。而幸运的话,后来,又会重新走到一起。

Other mother-child portraits I really admire are Gwendoline Riley’s “My Phantoms” and Susie Boyt’s “Loved and Missed,” two novels about mothers who feel out of reach to their daughters. I also really liked Helen Garner’s essay about her mother, “Dreams of Her Real Self,” from the book “Everywhere I Look.” And Natalia Ginzburg’s “Human Relationships in a Changing World” is an incredible depiction of the instability of our concerns and self-conception at each stage of life.

其他我非常欣赏的母子/母女肖像是格温多琳·赖利(Gwendoline Riley)的《我的幽灵》(My Phantoms)和苏茜·博伊特(Susie Boyt)的《爱过又错过》(Loved and Missed),这两部小说写的都是让女儿感到遥不可及的母亲。我也很喜欢海伦·加纳(Helen Garner)写她母亲的文章《她真实自我的梦》(Dreams of Her Real Self),收在《我目光所及之处》(Everywhere I Look)一书中。还有娜塔莉亚·金兹堡(Natalia Ginzburg)的《变动世界中的人际关系》(Human Relationships in a Changing World),它极为出色地描绘了我们在人生每个阶段,关切之事与自我认知的不稳定性。

The work of Yiyun Li also felt influential. There’s a way of writing about parenthood that can be sentimental and reductive, but she makes it unfamiliar again. One of her sentences in “Where Reasons End” captures what a lot of the stories I’d written about seemed to express: “The essence of growing up is to play hide and seek with one’s mother successfully.”

李翊云的作品也对我影响很大。有一种书写亲子关系的方式,容易流于感伤和简化,但她让它重新变得陌生。她在《理性终结之处》(Where Reasons End)中的一句话,捕捉到了我写的许多故事似乎都在表达的东西:“长大的本质,就是成功地和母亲玩捉迷藏。”

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