Q. & A.

Behind the Settler Attack on Palestinians and a Washington Post Journalist

定居者袭击巴勒斯坦人和一名《华盛顿邮报》记者背后
Jasper Nathaniel, an independent journalist who filmed the attack, describes the significant increase in West Bank violence on the eve of the Israeli election.
独立记者贾斯珀·纳撒尼尔(Jasper Nathaniel)拍摄了这次袭击,他描述了以色列大选前夕约旦河西岸暴力事件的显著增加。
October 19, 2026
A person harvests olives with soldiers nearby.
Photograph by Faiz Abu Rmeleh / Getty

On Friday, a group of Israeli settlers attacked Palestinian farmers who were harvesting olives in the West Bank. In the process, they also beat up an American Washington Post photographer, Heidi Levine, who was there to cover the annual olive harvest. The attack prompted rare criticism of the Israeli government from the United States Embassy in Jerusalem, which requested an investigation. The office of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that an investigation was warranted, while also casting doubt on what occurred. (On Saturday, after settlers also attacked a group of European diplomats during a visit to the West Bank, Netanyahu raised the prospect that it was part of a “coordinated campaign to smear Israel.”) Over all, in 2026, violence against Palestinians in the West Bank has increased significantly from prior years; the next Israeli election is in late October.

周五,一群以色列定居者袭击了正在约旦河西岸采摘橄榄的巴勒斯坦农民。在此过程中,他们还殴打了一名美国《华盛顿邮报》摄影师海蒂·莱文(Heidi Levine),她当时正在现场报道一年一度的橄榄采摘季。这次袭击促使美国驻耶路撒冷大使馆罕见地批评以色列政府,并要求展开调查。以色列总理本雅明·内塔尼亚胡(Benjamin Netanyahu)的办公室表示调查是必要的,但同时对事件的真实性提出质疑。(周六,定居者又在约旦河西岸袭击了一群欧洲外交官,内塔尼亚胡随后提出,这可能是一场“抹黑以色列的协同行动”的一部分。)总体而言,2026年约旦河西岸针对巴勒斯坦人的暴力事件较往年显著增加;下一次以色列大选在十月下旬。

I recently spoke by phone with Jasper Nathaniel, a journalist who covers the West Bank for his Substack, and who was present during the assault on Levine. During our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity, we discussed how the Israeli government has been increasingly aiding extremist settlers, the changing attitude among Israeli settlers toward Americans in the West Bank, and what happened during the attack on Levine and others.

我最近通过电话采访了贾斯珀·纳撒尼尔,他是一名记者,在自己的Substack平台上报道约旦河西岸事务,莱文遇袭时他就在现场。在我们的对话中——为篇幅和清晰度做了编辑——我们讨论了以色列政府如何越来越多地支持极端主义定居者、以色列定居者对待在约旦河西岸的美国人的态度变化,以及莱文等人遇袭时发生了什么。

How many times have you been to the West Bank in the past couple of years?

过去几年你去过约旦河西岸多少次?

This is my fifth trip since January of 2024. Each trip is around a month, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little bit less. For this trip, I arrived on October 6th, and I am definitely staying past the election, which is on October 27th.

这是自2024年1月以来我第五次去。每次大约一个月,有时多一点,有时少一点。这次我是10月6日到的,我肯定会待到选举之后,选举是10月27日。

How have things changed over those nearly three years?

在这将近三年的时间里,情况发生了怎样的变化?

There are real material changes, because there are lots of villages that I visited as recently as last year that just don’t exist anymore. They have been literally wiped off the map and replaced by either an outpost, or in some cases a new neighborhood of a settlement, or a closed military zone. [Outposts are officially unauthorized by the Israeli government, although many of them eventually become retroactively legalized.] So there have been actual material changes to the geography and the demographics.

有实实在在的物质性变化,因为有很多村庄,我去年还去过,现在已经不存在了。它们被彻底从地图上抹去,取而代之的是一个前哨定居点,有时是某个定居点的新街区,或者是一个封闭军事区。[前哨定居点在官方上未获以色列政府批准,尽管其中许多最终会被追溯合法化。]所以地理和人口结构确实发生了实质性的变化。

Since this government came in, in 2022, and certainly since October 7, 2023, the settlers have been emboldened. And the threshold for when they turn to violence has just gotten lower and lower. In other words, it used to be the case that many settler attacks would start with settlers coming into a village and accusing Palestinians of something like stealing a goat, and then they would go house to house, kicking down doors looking for the goat, and then eventually it would turn into a fight.

自这届政府2022年上台以来,当然还有2023年10月7日之后,定居者变得更加有恃无恐。他们诉诸暴力的门槛越来越低。换句话说,过去很多定居者袭击是这样开始的:定居者进入一个村庄,指控巴勒斯坦人偷了一只山羊之类的,然后挨家挨户踹门找羊,最后演变成打斗。

Now what you’re seeing is, literally every single day, huge mobs of settlers put on masks, wear all black, pick up clubs and machine guns, and launch coördinated attacks. And these attacks are not random at all. The way that the map has changed in the West Bank is precisely what Bezalel Smotrich, the finance minister, has laid out numerous times when he’s described how Israel is going to create Jewish sovereignty across the West Bank. So, for example, take the attack on Friday in Khirbet Abu Falah. There is an outpost that exists there, and it’s not there for no reason. It’s a strategic piece of land because it cuts off a point between two villages. It creates continuity between different settlements, and the Israeli government wants that piece of land, and so the settlers are out there doing their dirty work by terrorizing the Palestinians. They have effectively taken over all of the farmland there. You may see some Israeli officials condemning Friday’s attack because it was so gnarly and involved an American, but, at the end of the day, the most violent settlers are working toward a state project of taking over land in the West Bank. And so, yes, the violence has increased both in intensity and in scale.

现在你看到的是,几乎每一天,大批定居者戴上面具,穿一身黑,抄起棍棒和机关枪,发动有组织的袭击。这些袭击绝非随机。约旦河西岸地图的变化方式,恰恰就是财政部长贝扎莱尔·斯莫特里赫(Bezalel Smotrich)多次阐述过的以色列如何在约旦河西岸建立犹太人主权的方案。比如,周五在希尔贝特阿布法拉赫(Khirbet Abu Falah)的袭击。那里有一个前哨定居点,它的存在不是没有原因的。那是一块战略要地,因为它切断了两个村庄之间的一个连接点。它在不同定居点之间建立了连续性,以色列政府想要那块地,所以定居者就在那里干他们的脏活,恐吓巴勒斯坦人。他们已经实际上接管了那里所有的农田。你可能会看到一些以色列官员谴责周五的袭击,因为场面太恶劣,而且涉及一个美国人,但归根结底,最暴力的定居者是在为一个国家项目效力——在约旦河西岸夺取土地。所以,是的,暴力在强度和规模上都在升级。

The settlers seem to be acting with more confidence, brazenness, and violence. How would you define their mentality?

定居者似乎更加自信、更加肆无忌惮、更加暴力。你会如何定义他们的心态?

I think the biggest thing is that they appear to be much more organized. I’ll give you an example. In Masafer Yatta, which is in the Hebron Hills, there’s been settler violence there for a very long time, but only in the past couple of years has what is essentially a gang formed. It’s run by a guy named Shimon Atiya, and he runs a farm, and there are lots of young men and teen-agers who work for him, and some of them actually live with him. And these guys go from village to village, vandalizing property, letting their livestock feed on Palestinian land, and beating up residents in some cases.

我认为最大的变化是他们看起来组织化程度高了很多。我给你举个例子。在马萨费尔亚塔(Masafer Yatta),位于希伯伦山区,那里长期以来就有定居者暴力,但直到最近几年才基本上形成了一个帮派。头目是一个叫希蒙·阿提亚(Shimon Atiya)的人,他经营一个农场,有很多年轻人和青少年为他干活,有些人甚至和他住在一起。这些人从一个村庄到另一个村庄,破坏财产,让他们的牲畜在巴勒斯坦人的土地上吃草,有时还殴打居民。

They appear like a gang because what happens is, first, there will be a couple of maybe twelve- or thirteen-year-old kids who come and try to plant an Israeli flag somewhere. And then when people try to stop them, a couple of older kids will come and start pushing and shoving and punching, and then maybe Atiya or one of his right-hand men show up with a gun and start waving the gun around and actually scaring the crap out of people to make them leave. So I am seeing a level of organization with what are essentially settler militias that I did not witness three years ago. And part of that is because the settlers are so well supported and resourced by the government and by the military. I mean, they have the ability to basically create these little org structures.

他们看起来像一个帮派,因为事情是这样发生的:首先,会有几个大概十二三岁的孩子来,试图在某处插一面以色列国旗。然后当人们试图阻止他们时,几个大一点的孩子就会过来推搡、挥拳,然后阿提亚或者他的某个得力助手会带着枪出现,挥舞着枪,真的把人吓得魂飞魄散,逼他们离开。所以我看到的是这些实质上的定居者民兵的组织化程度,这是三年前我没有见到的。部分原因是定居者得到了政府和军队如此充分的支持和资源。我的意思是,他们基本上有能力建立这些小型的组织结构。

What do you mean by that?

你这话是什么意思?

A guy like Atiya or Elisha Yered or Amishav Melet has a direct connection to the I.D.F., or a commander in the I.D.F. that they work directly with. And that I.D.F. commander is responsible for giving them an official I.D.F. guard, who basically serves as their personal security and their enforcer in some cases. [In a statement, the I.D.F. said, “The claim that the IDF provides personal security guards to the leaders of the outposts is entirely unfounded.”] So settlers have this sort of direct material connection to the military that, in years past, may not have existed at all. At other times it was probably more tacit, but now it’s direct. There’s a guy in the I.D.F. central command whose job is to meet with outpost leaders and make sure they have everything that they need, and that includes money, too.

像阿提亚、以利沙·耶雷德(Elisha Yered)或阿米沙夫·梅莱特(Amishav Melet)这样的人,与以色列国防军有直接联系,或者与某位以色列国防军指挥官直接合作。那位指挥官负责给他们配备一名正式的以色列国防军警卫,这个警卫基本上就是他们的私人保安,有时还是他们的打手。[以色列国防军在一份声明中表示:“关于以色列国防军向前哨定居点领导人提供私人保安的说法完全没有根据。”]所以定居者与军队之间有一种直接的物质联系,这在过去可能根本不存在。其他时期这种联系可能更隐晦,但现在它是直接的。以色列国防军中央司令部有一个人,他的工作就是与前哨定居点领导人会面,确保他们拥有所需的一切,包括资金。

And so then that money is used to pay shepherds to work for them. And part of what the shepherds do is they bring their livestock onto Palestinian land to destroy their vegetation, so they kill off the farmland. So they’re operating in this very strategic way that, from a distance, appears to be random. And I think at one time in the past it was more random, but now you can just see that it’s a well-oiled machine.

然后这些钱被用来雇佣牧羊人为他们干活。牧羊人的部分工作就是把牲畜带到巴勒斯坦人的土地上,毁掉植被,从而毁掉农田。所以他们以一种非常有策略的方式运作,从远处看似乎是随机的。我认为过去某个时期确实更随机,但现在你能看出来这是一台运转良好的机器。

So the approach by authorities has changed from letting violence happen to actively working with the perpetrators?

所以当局的做法从放任暴力发生,变成了与施暴者积极合作?

Absolutely. I think that’s the biggest change. Smotrich, in addition to being the finance minister, also heads up something called the Settlement Administration, which he created within the Ministry of Defense so that he could basically take charge of the military occupation of the West Bank and clear all the red tape involved in authorizing new settlements, or new roads, or things like that. So, for example, it is now much, much, much easier for a settler leader who wants to create a new outpost to get whatever resources he needs for that, because all that red tape that used to be there doesn’t exist anymore. Now it’s a bunch of messianic settler ideologues like Smotrich in the government, who are just rubber-stamping most of what they want.

绝对如此。我认为这是最大的变化。斯莫特里赫除了担任财政部长,还掌管一个叫“定居管理局”的机构,这是他在国防部内部设立的,这样他就可以基本上掌控对约旦河西岸的军事占领,清除批准新定居点、新道路等事务所涉及的所有繁文缛节。所以,举例来说,现在一个想建立新前哨定居点的定居者领导人要获得所需资源,比以前容易太多太多了,因为过去那些繁文缛节已经不存在了。现在政府里是一群像斯莫特里赫这样的弥赛亚式定居者意识形态分子,他们基本上就是在橡皮图章式地批准他们想要的大部分东西。

And that also trickles down to the fact that these settler groups are unbelievably well armed. Settlers have been basically deputized into these groups called Hagmar, where they just become settler-soldiers, who are basically wearing full I.D.F. attire and have rifles. Smotrich has what is called a sovereignty plan, which he unveiled last year, to basically squeeze Palestinians into six major population centers, which include Ramallah and the other big cities. And the way that the settler violence has unfolded recently, the way that the outposts are popping up and the villages are being emptied—it’s in direct alignment with his plan.

这也向下传导到一个事实:这些定居者团体的武装程度令人难以置信。定居者基本上被编入了这些叫“哈格马尔”(Hagmar)的组织,他们变成了定居者士兵,基本上穿着全套以色列国防军制服,配备步枪。斯莫特里赫有一个所谓的“主权计划”,去年公布的,基本上是要把巴勒斯坦人挤压到六个主要人口中心,包括拉马拉和其他大城市。而最近定居者暴力的展开方式、前哨定居点的涌现方式、村庄被清空的方式——都直接与他的计划一致。

I have heard people say that the attack on Heidi Levine only got so much attention because she was American, when in fact this type of thing happens constantly to Palestinians, including during the attack on Friday, with much less attention. This is surely true, but I also think it’s important to understand how the settlers and the Israeli government view the risks of attacking Americans, especially American journalists. How has this question changed since you started making these trips, which was during the Biden Administration?

我听人说,海蒂·莱文遇袭之所以受到这么多关注,只是因为她是美国人,而事实上这类事情经常发生在巴勒斯坦人身上,包括周五袭击中的巴勒斯坦人,受到的关注却少得多。这当然是真的,但我也认为,理解定居者和以色列政府如何看待袭击美国人——尤其是美国记者——的风险,这一点很重要。自从你开始这些行程以来——那是在拜登政府时期——这个问题发生了怎样的变化?

A Palestinian American who I talked to about this told me that, under Biden, if an American was beat up or they had their home burned or something, or an American was brutalized by the I.D.F., somebody from the Embassy would come and send their condolences, and then they would leave, and the victim would never hear from them again. With the Trump Administration, they have not even been making the trip. In other words, there’s no material difference between the two. It’s just that one of them was putting a dressing on it to act like there was some care.

一位我聊过此事的巴勒斯坦裔美国人告诉我,在拜登时期,如果一个美国人被打,或者房子被烧了,或者被以色列国防军暴力对待,大使馆会派人来表示慰问,然后离开,受害者再也听不到他们的消息。到了特朗普政府,他们连来都不来了。换句话说,两者之间没有实质性区别。只是一个在上面贴了层纱布,装出关心的样子。

I think that Palestinian Americans are a good measure for this because they look like other Palestinians, but they have blue passports. And so it’s sort of like you’re controlling for a variable here. There are Palestinian communities in the West Bank which are, like, eighty per cent Palestinian American. Because of their dual citizenship, they used to be pretty insulated from the violence of the occupation, from the settlers. But that privilege disappeared on October 7th. And now those Palestinian Americans are coming to terms with the fact that they’re actually just Palestinians. There’s no distinction.

我认为巴勒斯坦裔美国人是衡量这个问题的一个很好的标尺,因为他们看起来和其他巴勒斯坦人一样,但他们有蓝色护照。所以这有点像控制了一个变量。约旦河西岸有一些巴勒斯坦社区,大约百分之八十是巴勒斯坦裔美国人。由于双重国籍,他们过去在很大程度上不受占领和定居者暴力的影响。但这种特权在10月7日消失了。现在那些巴勒斯坦裔美国人正在接受一个事实:他们实际上就是巴勒斯坦人。没有区别。

As far as Americans who are not also Palestinian, like myself, or Heidi—I mean, look, it’s anecdotal, but I will tell you that, in my five trips, the level of violence that I have directly faced myself has quite literally increased. My first three times, nobody ever actually laid hands on me. I was in cars that were attacked. I was chased. I had guns pointed at me, but nobody ever struck me. The last time I was here, in June and July, I was attacked multiple times. This trip, I’ve been here for ten days, and to tell you the truth, I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve been attacked already. And, listen, I don’t look Palestinian. I’m usually shouting in English. A lot of the time I’m wearing a press vest or I’m shouting that I am a journalist, and they just don’t give a shit. They don’t even blink. It doesn’t faze them. They still come after me just like they would anyone else.

至于不是巴勒斯坦裔的美国人,比如我自己,或者海蒂——听着,这只是个人经历,但我要告诉你,在我五次行程中,我直接面对的暴力程度确实在上升。前三次,从来没有人真正对我动手。我坐的车被袭击过。我被追过。有人用枪指着我,但从来没有人打过我。上次我来这里,六月和七月,我被袭击了好几次。这次,我来了十天,说实话,我已经数不清被袭击了多少次了。而且,听着,我看起来不像巴勒斯坦人。我通常用英语大喊。很多时候我穿着记者背心,或者我大喊我是记者,他们根本不在乎。他们连眼睛都不眨一下。这完全不影响他们。他们照样追我,就像追其他任何人一样。

Can you explain what happened on Friday?

你能解释一下周五发生了什么吗?

It was the olive-harvest day in Khirbet Abu Falah, a Palestinian community in the West Bank. And, like I said, there’s this outpost that exists on the top of a hill that overlooks the olive fields, and the Palestinians are routinely attacked by settlers that live there. So, because of these attacks, the olive fields have basically been off limits for the Palestinians, but this is their livelihood, and this is the harvesting season. And so, basically, what a lot of these communities do is pick a day, or a couple of days, when everybody will go out together, and the hope is that there will be protection in numbers.

那天是希尔贝特阿布法拉赫的橄榄采摘日,这是约旦河西岸的一个巴勒斯坦社区。就像我说的,山顶上有一个前哨定居点,俯瞰着橄榄田,巴勒斯坦人经常遭到住在那里定居者的袭击。所以,由于这些袭击,橄榄田基本上对巴勒斯坦人是禁区,但这是他们的生计,而现在是采摘季节。所以基本上,很多这样的社区会选定一天,或者几天,所有人一起出去,希望人多能带来安全。

But, from the minute we got there, we were watching the settlers at the top of the hill prepare for an attack. I mean, we were literally watching them suit up, put their masks over their heads, pick up their clubs, and it looked like a group of people getting ready for battle, which is exactly what they were doing. The olive harvest is supposed to be this peaceful and celebratory family affair, but in this case, because of the risk of attack, it was only men who went to harvest. There were no women or children there, and they were just racing as fast as they could to get the olives off the tree, because we were watching the settlers get ready to attack. About an hour into it, they start charging down the hill, and initially they are just hurling really big rocks, and they have these slings that they use. So these are really big rocks that are coming in from a distance, really fast, and, if you get hit by one, it can do real damage. So first they’re just charging down with rocks. There’s probably forty to fifty of them. And you have to keep in mind that the olive fields—and this is the case in a lot of Palestinian villages—are basically the buffer between the outpost and the village itself, the residential core of the village. And so, if the settlers are able to push right past the olive fields, they’re now in the village, and they’re going to start ransacking homes and basically doing a pogrom.

但是,从我们到达的那一刻起,我们就在看着山顶上的定居者准备袭击。我的意思是,我们真的看着他们穿戴装备,把面具套到头上,拿起棍棒,看起来就像一群准备上战场的人,而他们确实就是在准备打仗。橄榄采摘本应是一件和平、喜庆的家庭活动,但在这种情况下,由于有被袭击的风险,只有男人去采摘。没有妇女或儿童在场,他们只是在尽可能快地摘橄榄,因为我们看着定居者在准备袭击。大约一个小时后,他们开始从山上冲下来,一开始只是扔很大的石头,他们用投石索。所以这些是很大的石头,从远处飞速飞来,如果被砸中,会造成真正的伤害。所以一开始他们就是带着石头冲下来。大概有四五十人。你要记住,橄榄田——这在很多巴勒斯坦村庄都是如此——基本上是前哨定居点和村庄本身之间的缓冲区,村庄的居住核心区。所以,如果定居者能够冲过橄榄田,他们就进入了村庄,就会开始洗劫房屋,基本上就是进行一场大屠杀。

So, in other words, the Palestinians had an interest in defending themselves, not just to defend themselves so they could continue picking olives but because it’s existential. It was sort of a remarkable thing to witness, but dozens of young Palestinians just put masks on and picked up rocks and charged back at the settlers, and they beat them back. And so there was about ten to fifteen minutes where it was like a battle. The settlers would make a push and hurl rocks, and then the Palestinians would charge back. Then things changed when the settlers started setting trees on fire, and so now there’s smoke in the air, and the Palestinians are having a harder time pushing forward because of that. And then the military showed up and started tear-gassing the Palestinians. So, once there’s tear gas—you can’t run through tear gas. So everybody’s basically now in retreat, and then out of the tear gas emerges a white pickup truck with, I think, two or three settlers, in black hoodies, holding rifles, shooting them into the air. And, as soon as we heard machine-gun fire, everybody just turned around and ran.

所以,换句话说,巴勒斯坦人有自卫的动力,不仅仅是为了能继续摘橄榄,而是因为这关乎生存。目睹这一切确实很了不起,几十个年轻的巴勒斯坦人戴上面具,捡起石头,向定居者冲回去,把他们打了回去。所以大约有十到十五分钟的时间,就像一场战斗。定居者会推进并扔石头,然后巴勒斯坦人会冲回去。然后情况发生了变化,定居者开始放火烧树,空气中弥漫着烟雾,巴勒斯坦人因此更难向前推进。然后军队出现了,开始向巴勒斯坦人发射催泪瓦斯。所以,一旦有催泪瓦斯——你没法穿过催泪瓦斯。所以所有人基本上都在撤退,然后从催泪瓦斯中冲出一辆白色皮卡,上面有两三个定居者,穿着黑色连帽衫,举着步枪,朝天开枪。我们一听到机关枪声,所有人就转身跑了。

And you’re running along with everyone else?

你和其他人一起跑?

Oh, yeah. I was right at the front line and, as soon as I heard the machine-gun fire, that’s it.

哦,是的。我就在最前线,一听到机关枪声,就完了。

When you say you’re at the front line, you’re observing as a journalist here?

你说你在最前线,你是作为记者在那里观察吗?

Yeah. I’m just there taking cover and filming what’s happening. And so, as everybody’s running backwards, that must be when Heidi was caught. I’m not sure if she fell or if she was just overtaken. I mean, she’s sixty-three years old, and these settlers are maybe a third or fourth her age. But, basically, after we retreated and the charge stopped, I look back, and I see somebody in a press vest on the ground with five or six settlers on top of them, just beating them over and over with clubs. It was truly barbaric. At one point, we saw them lift her up by her collar, and I was, like, “Oh, are they helping her up?” And then somebody came and kicked her and knocked her back down, and then they continued beating her. They stole everything off of her: her phone, her camera, her multiple cameras, her wallet, her passport.

是的。我就是在那里找掩护,拍摄正在发生的事情。所以,当所有人都在往后跑的时候,海蒂一定是在那个时候被抓住了。我不确定她是摔倒了还是被追上了。我的意思是,她六十三岁了,这些定居者可能只有她年龄的三分之一或四分之一。但基本上,在我们撤退、冲锋停止之后,我回头看,看到有人穿着记者背心倒在地上,五六个定居者压在她身上,用棍棒一遍又一遍地打她。真的是野蛮至极。有一刻,我们看到他们拽着她的衣领把她提起来,我还想,“哦,他们是在扶她起来吗?”然后有人过来踢了她一脚,把她踹倒,然后他们继续打她。他们抢走了她身上所有的东西:手机、相机、好几台相机、钱包、护照。

At this point, I actually didn’t know who was being beaten, but I was worried this person was going to be killed, and we were trying to figure out how to get to her because there was still this mob of settlers attacking us, plus there was tear gas in the air. A group of young Palestinian men appeared and led the way, started throwing rocks, and pushed the settlers back. And so the reason that the settlers stopped attacking Heidi is that they were forced to retreat. And that’s how I was then able to reach her. I saw her and I was shocked. I was, like, “Why is my Jewish mother here on the front lines of this battle?” I helped her up. She was in really, really bad shape. At first, I didn’t think we were going to have to run, because the settlers were retreating, but then they charged us again, and so then we had to run. I mean, in the video, you hear her say, “Let me die, let me die.” Fortunately, we were able to get her to the back, and some Palestinian paramedics picked her up. Again, the whole time, the only reason we were not completely overtaken is because these young Palestinian men were protecting us with rocks.

当时我其实不知道被打的是谁,但我担心这个人会被打死,我们试图想办法接近她,因为还有一群定居者暴徒在攻击我们,空气中还有催泪瓦斯。一群年轻的巴勒斯坦男子出现了,在前面带路,开始扔石头,把定居者逼退了。所以定居者停止攻击海蒂的原因是他们被迫撤退了。这样我才得以接近她。我看到她时震惊了。我想,“我的犹太妈妈怎么会在这战场的最前线?”我把她扶起来。她的状态非常非常糟糕。一开始我以为我们不用跑了,因为定居者在撤退,但后来他们又向我们冲过来,所以我们不得不跑。我的意思是,在视频里,你听到她说,“让我死吧,让我死吧。”幸运的是,我们把她带到了后方,一些巴勒斯坦急救人员接走了她。再说一遍,整个过程中,我们没有被完全吞没的唯一原因,就是这些年轻的巴勒斯坦男子在用石头保护我们。

When did it stop?

It ended after that happened, which was the last of the major settler violence that day. But then the I.D.F. soldiers who have been there, who’ve been tear-gassing the Palestinians and providing cover for the settlers, stormed the village. Rather than go after the settlers who have just nearly killed a woman, they stormed the village and started firing their weapons, and they shot a Palestinian man in the leg. The bullet shattered his femur and left countless bullet fragments that surgeons were unable to remove. He had to have a major surgery. I heard the gunshots, ran over, and was trying to document it, and soldiers were pushing me around, trying to throw me on the ground. One soldier aimed his gun at the paramedics. The New York Times reported that they were demanding the wounded man show his I.D. or he wouldn’t be able to go to the hospital. And then at some point, he was put in an ambulance, which took him away, and then the soldiers hung around for a bit. They shot a little more tear gas, and then they left. And then, actually, what was cool was that the Palestinians then went back out to their olive harvest. I mean, frankly, the feeling on the ground was that, despite two really grave injuries and other injuries, it was sort of a win for the Palestinians, because they did beat the settlers back and return to their olive fields.

那之后事情就结束了,那是当天最后一次大规模的定居者暴力。但随后,一直在那里向巴勒斯坦人发射催泪瓦斯、为定居者提供掩护的以色列国防军士兵冲进了村庄。他们没有去追那些差点打死一个女人的定居者,而是冲进村庄开始开枪,打中了一个巴勒斯坦男子的腿。子弹打碎了他的股骨,留下了无数外科医生无法取出的弹片。他不得不接受一次大手术。我听到枪声,跑过去试图记录,士兵们推搡我,试图把我摔倒在地。一名士兵用枪指着急救人员。《纽约时报》报道说,他们要求受伤男子出示身份证,否则就不能去医院。然后某个时刻,他被抬上救护车送走了,士兵们又逗留了一会儿。他们又发射了一些催泪瓦斯,然后离开了。然后,实际上,很酷的是,巴勒斯坦人随后又回到了他们的橄榄田继续采摘。我的意思是,坦率地说,现场的感觉是,尽管有两人重伤和其他人受伤,这对巴勒斯坦人来说算是一场胜利,因为他们确实把定居者打了回去,并且回到了他们的橄榄田。

The reason I keep bringing up the Palestinians throwing rocks to protect Heidi is because, I mean, I can’t emphasize enough how much these young men are . . . On Friday, they put their lives on the line. There were soldiers there, and soldiers will shoot when somebody is throwing rocks. These young men put their lives on the line to protect a sixty-three-year-old Jewish American journalist. And, I mean, these guys are heroes. If they were not doing that, so many villages would’ve been overtaken. They are literally the only defense. [On Saturday] I was in a village called Jalud, and the exact same thing happened. We got attacked by settlers, and it was these young men, whom we call the shabab, who fought them back with rocks. And the reason I just want to put a fine point on this is because, for me, just in terms of where things are going with Israel-Palestine politically, I think that a sort of discursive shift in how we talk about Palestinians’ right to defend themselves needs to happen.

我之所以反复提到巴勒斯坦人扔石头保护海蒂,是因为,我的意思是,我无法充分强调这些年轻人有多么……周五,他们冒着生命危险。那里有士兵,而士兵在有人扔石头时会开枪的。这些年轻人冒着生命危险保护一个六十三岁的犹太裔美国记者。而且,我的意思是,这些人是英雄。如果他们不这样做,很多村庄早就被占领了。他们实际上是唯一的防线。[周六]我在一个叫贾卢德(Jalud)的村庄,完全相同的事情发生了。我们遭到定居者袭击,正是这些我们称为“沙巴布”(shabab)的年轻人用石头把他们打了回去。我之所以想特别强调这一点,是因为对我来说,就以色列-巴勒斯坦政治走向而言,我认为在谈论巴勒斯坦人自卫权的问题上,需要发生一种话语层面的转变。

To what degree is the election, which is in less than ten days, on people’s minds, either in terms of how Palestinians are thinking it will or won’t change what’s happening, or in how Israeli settlers are thinking about it, or just in the broad politics of what all this means internally for Israel?

距离选举不到十天了,选举在多大程度上是人们关注的焦点?无论是巴勒斯坦人认为它会或不会改变现状,还是以色列定居者如何看待它,或者从更广泛的以色列内部政治来看,这一切意味着什么?

It is top of mind for everybody. For the Palestinians, they are all over the map when it comes to their politics. Some of them don’t believe that there’s any version of an Israeli government that would allow them to live a decent life, but most Palestinians, especially the ones in vulnerable communities, feel that if Netanyahu is out, and that means Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir are out, there will at least be a degree shift in the level of overt support that these settlers are getting from the military and from the government. Nobody thinks that a new government is going to roll back the settler movement. And nobody thinks that Gadi Eisenkot, the opposition leader, is going to even dismantle the outposts or anything. But the hope is that settlers will get fewer guns, and less support to just build roads wherever they want. Still, Eisenkot went to an illegal outpost earlier this year, a notoriously violent one, and met with the leaders there, in what one can only assume was a political meeting, a signal to them that they didn’t have to worry if the government changed.

这是所有人最关心的事。对巴勒斯坦人来说,他们的政治立场各不相同。有些人认为任何版本的以色列政府都不会让他们过上好日子,但大多数巴勒斯坦人,尤其是脆弱社区的人,觉得如果内塔尼亚胡下台,那就意味着斯莫特里赫和伊塔马尔·本-格维尔(Itamar Ben-Gvir)下台,定居者从军队和政府那里得到的公开支持至少会有程度上的变化。没有人认为新政府会逆转定居者运动。也没有人认为反对派领导人加迪·艾森科特(Gadi Eisenkot)会拆除前哨定居点或做类似的事。但希望在于定居者会得到更少的枪支,更少的支持去随意修路。不过,艾森科特今年早些时候去了一个非法前哨定居点,一个臭名昭著的暴力定居点,会见了那里的领导人,人们只能推测这是一次政治会面,是向他们发出信号:即使政府更迭,他们也不必担心。

The other way that it’s affecting things right now is that there’s a feeling that the settlers are racing against the clock, that if the government changes they’re not going to have as much support, and so they need to basically steal as much land as they possibly can before the clock runs out.

它现在影响局势的另一个方式是,有一种感觉,定居者正在与时间赛跑,如果政府更迭,他们就不会有那么多支持了,所以他们需要在时间耗尽之前尽可能多地抢占土地。

Facts on the ground.

地面上的既成事实。

Exactly. And, by the way, that is the entire philosophy of Smotrich, who is running the ethnic-cleansing campaign in the West Bank, and who has said he wants to change the DNA of the system, meaning changes in the bureaucracy and the governing mechanisms, which will make it impossible to undo this stuff.

正是如此。顺便说一句,这正是斯莫特里赫的整个哲学,他正在约旦河西岸主导这场种族清洗行动,他说过他想改变这个体系的DNA,意思是改变官僚机构和治理机制,使这些东西无法被逆转。

I think that the last thing I’ll mention is that there’s a real fear about what’s going to happen immediately after the election, because, if Netanyahu wins, the settlers are going to be doing celebratory pogroms. If Eisenkot wins, they’re going to be doing revenge pogroms. Heads I win, tails you lose. ♦

我想最后提的一点是,人们对选举结束后立即会发生什么有一种真实的恐惧,因为如果内塔尼亚胡赢了,定居者会进行庆祝式的大屠杀。如果艾森科特赢了,他们会进行报复式的大屠杀。正面我赢,反面你输。♦

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